Re: Big Fat Wrap-Up

Tie goes to he runner, though. McCain needed to hit it out of the park and couldn't do it, so this one has to go to Obama.

Also, we can't forget the Obama didn't sound like a scary muslim arab factor.

Obama probably helped himself some with conservative democrats tonight.

Obama's theme seemed to be You're right, John. Although Jeffery Toobin gave it a more charitable reading than I did.

Also, thanks for hanging out with us tonight, KT.

"Neither made any big mistakes or committed any gaffes that I could discern." Other than McCain stating that Pakistan was a failed state at the time of the coup (untrue, and if true, why didn't he bring this up at the time, given that they had nukes?). He also seemed to admit that the U.S. has tortured prisoners when he said we need to make sure don't ever do it... again.

I second superterrificdelegate. Thanks, KT!

My personal opinion is Obama won by not losing this debate. However, I have no idea how this will be spun tomorrow and what the soundbites will be.

I am looking forward to Biden-Palin. Let's hope Andrew Sullivan doesn't explode due to the fire of his righteous Palinfury.

Obama's theme seemed to be You're right, John...

Sometimes John was.

I thought that one of the moments that particualrly turned Obama's way was when McCain was totally hung up on preconditions
There were several spots where Obama's ability to keep his cool were beneficial.

Bifurcated? Coulda said "divided" and come off less pompous right out of the gate.

--

Anyway...

Bravo to Obama for NOT HAVING A THEME!!! What is wrong with you -- this is NOT entertainment. Obama answered the questions, if you absolutely have to satisfy your need for a theme then his theme was one of respect; something McCain showed none of.

I completely agree with KT: Obama was lacking a theme (which is a problem because it makes him look directionless and disengaged) but it still wasn't a game-changer.

In addition to what time-blogger said, 2 things stood out for me, though only because I do my research on news stories and issues:

The first one was when McCain commented on Obama telling both Russia AND Georgia to stand down - that was because it was an offensive action by Georgia that gave Russia an excuse to invade South Ossetia, (which they'd obviously been planning for a long time anyway).

The second is that McCain, (no surprise), nor Obama (unfortuantely), gave the true reason the surge 'worked' - because the opposing forces took the opportunity to go out and commit genocide in a number of areas before hand, so that the fighting had pretty much died down by the time the surge 'took effect'.

Obama all the way, aside from McCain improving towards the end it was hardly close. Even Halperin of all people is giving this to Obama, what else does one need?

http://thepage.time.com/2008/09/26/engagement-but-no-big-moments/

Karen Tumelty is dead wrong. Obama clearly won this debate. McCain sounded like a fool.

Halperin gives Obama a A- and McCain a B-.

Does that mean he has to grovel to Hugh Hewitt tomorrow and apologize?

Can someone post a transcript of the debate when it is out?

Thank you, vicious maniac!

I thought Obama missed opportunities to weigh in more on the economy. It's what's on everyone's mind and he didn't spend nearly enough time on it.

And I agree he lacked a theme.

But he did go toe to toe with McCain on foreign policy and came out fighting to a draw, perhaps surprising some people...

This Canadian agrees with kingcrimson. The Democrat was once again the far superior debater, in both form and substance. But we all know how much that meant four years ago, when Kerry beat Bush three times and still lost the election. Here's hoping, for the world's sake, that Americans will not be fooled thrice.

Kudos to all the great commenters at Swampland for keeping up the fight for honest discourse.

KT kingcrimson rules.

Do you think they stayed good even into their Adrian Belew period?

KT: Obama seemed to lack a theme.

My vote would have been the one from St. Elmo's Fire.

More seriously, having a 'bifurcated' debate makes it harder to establish one, unless you're John McCain and the theme you're pushing is "Obama's naive". Which Obama showed to be wrong.

Anyhow...The first round of fact checking is already here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080927/ap_on_el_pr/presidential_debate_factcheck

Halperin has a headline up

Kissinger: Obama Misstates My View

The former Secretary of State says he does not support direct talks with Ahmadinejad.“Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level.”Obama said during the debate that Kissinger, a McCain adviser, supports presidential talks with the Iranian president.

Huh. That's funny because
//
Kissinger: Open direct Iran talks - UPI.com
WASHINGTON, Sept. 16 (UPI) -- Former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger says the United States should begin direct negotiations with Iran over its nuclear enrichment program.

Kissinger, speaking Monday at George Washington University along with four other former U.S. State Department secretaries, said the next president should initiate high-level discussions with Iran "without conditions," ABC News reported.

Political Radar: Kissinger Backs Direct Talks 'Without Conditions' with Iran
Kissinger Backs Direct Talks 'Without Conditions' with Iran
//

September 15, 2008 6:16 PM
ABC News' Rachel Martin Reports: Former U.S.Secretary of State Henry Kissinger today told an audience in Washington, DC that the U.S. should negotiate with Iran "without conditions" and that the next President should begin such negotiations at a high level.

The former Nixon and Ford U.S. Secretary of State early in the year indicated his belief that the U.S. should hold direct talks with Iran when speaking to Bloomberg Television.
//

What? No HTML?
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/09/16/Kissinger_Open_direct_Iran_talks/UPI-46971221579660/
Kissinger: Open direct Iran talks - UPI.com

and

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/kissinger-backs.html
Political Radar: Kissinger Backs Direct Talks 'Without Conditions' with Iran

J.J.: I like both Discipline and Beat very much, both with Belew.

I remember after the Pennsylvania debate (maybe it was Ohio...) everyone thought Obama won, including the focus groups. The exit-polls said otherwise. Instant focus groups and those line graphs are unscientific - it's an artificial environment, and the sample sizes are usually too small. I really think McCain won. But it was only a small victory, and the continuing focus on the economy should help Obama. I just hope the MSM won't start worshiping McCain again if he does get a little bounce in the tracking polls. I can already see the new narrative: McCain triumphs after poll respondents count him out.

trifecta, Halperin always gives Obama good debate grades.

James, Los Angeles, I'm not getting the contradiction.

"Kissinger, speaking Monday at George Washington University along with four other former U.S. State Department secretaries, said the next president should initiate high-level discussions with Iran "without conditions," ABC News reported."

Kissinger's saying the President should initiate negotiations unconditionally, but not offer to meet with Iran's leaders unconditionally.